Seductive Delirium – The Power of Wielding Government for Liberty

The buzz in favor of using eminent domain to give Justice Souter a taste of his own medicine boils down to 1) street theatre – It’s effective in convincing the masses of the wrongness of blatant government thievery and 2) seductive delerium – It provides a slim, but desperate hope that equally applying oppressive policies to those who create and enforce those policies will make them lift the boot up from our necks – just a little, anyway. As a one commenter puts it, “If space aliens COULD rescue us from this government, I’d support that, too. ”

The street theatre justification for the Lost Liberty Hotel project falls flat from the get go. While it does call attention to the use of eminent domain for private enterprise, it doesn’t go far in convincing the masses of anything beyond simply reinforcing their own existing tendencies.

At best, statists see the Kelo case as a way that big, bad capitalists take advantage of the “little man.” They come away from the Lost Liberty Hotel Show saying, “Right on. It’s wrong for Souter to let Pfizer take property for business use. Government is the only group that should be confiscating property. Power to the people!”

Reason #2

“Don’t get me wrong. Being Lady of the Golden Wood is great and all, but I could pamper myself at a nice libertarian B&B now and then. Hmm… just a little government. Only for good, of course.”

“Confiscate this, Souter!”

Conservatives and libertarians who are enticed by the Lost Liberty Hotel plan believe that wielding the power of government could make government cry uncle and back off. In other words, the space alien rescue. Expansion of government doesn’t make government back off. Even if Congress passed a law limiting the use of eminent domain for private projects, it will still be back in force before the ink is dry, taking your stuff in all manner of other ways.

It’s like making it illegal to pick one pocket, but open season on all the other pockets. That’s how government rescues you.

So what’s the right way to react to the Kelo ruling? Do what you should have been doing all along. Work on a personal freedom strategy, not a collective one. Martyring yourself in order to make a point to the masses is a waste of life, just as expending the slightest energy in street theatre to sway the herd is a wasted effort.

37 thoughts on “Seductive Delirium – The Power of Wielding Government for Liberty”

  1. The beautiful blue-lit kingdom of death! yay!

    Princess Asa comments that certain nekulturny types wanted to confiscate her lovely castle to build what that they called an “Experience Music Project”

    “A nerd with an electric guitar collection said something to me about eminent domain” continued the lovely Princess A, as she swayed closer closer to me.

    Yebat’ vashu mat’!” she said, sweetly “But then I had a little discussion with him in the crypt and he changed his mind.”

    “Oh no” she added “he never actually left.”

  2. Spot on, Lynette! (And maybe it’s my inability to deprogram further, but I have a hard time being mean-spirited to someone who hasn’t tried to hurt me first. Don’t hate me solely for that, okay? ;-) )

  3. Essentially, the problem boils down to, “Was Boromir wrong about wanting to use the One Ring against the Enemy, and why?” A while back at Samizdata during the discussions surrounding the start of GWII, I proposed the following question:

    Is the One Ring evil because of its Maker, or because of its Power?

    If the One Ring is evil because of its maker, then the possibility exists to make another similar Ring held in different hands which can be used to dominate others to good ends. If the One Ring is evil because of its power, all such attempts would make matters worse.

  4. Yah, right.
    Far better just to hang back in safety and snipe from the sidelines. Blog and bitch and complain, curl up into the fetal position and mew about the problems with using “political theatre” while other people do the heavy lifting.

    Odd really… because I’ve seen many on here continue to cheerlead for Dubya’s “War on Terror”. The same principle is at stake. If the idea is being promoted that weilding the power of the state, even for a good cause is “wrong”… then WTF is up with people playing pom-pom girls here for the appropriation of hundreds of billions of US taxpayers dollars to create a welfare/police state in Iraq?

    If there is a government, then the weilding of it’s force to defend against people who do wrong, who attack individual rights, who threaten others is entirely appropriate, and ONLY then.

    The only thing that the Lost Liberty hotel is doing is pointing out the hypocricy and mendacity of the *law* in question. In short, it’s meeting those who promote, collude with and advance the Leviathan, on their own bloody terms.

    Yes Lynette…comfort yourself that in an anarcho-capitalist society, this kind of an action would be abhorrant. In fact… It wouldn’t even be possible.

    Just like in an anarcho capitalist society, if George Bush and his buddies wanted to head off to Iraq in a mercenary action/mission of mercy, without the power of the government behind them, were unable to raise funds, just started Shanghai’ing soldiers (instead of drafting them), and holding people up at gun-point to get the funds required, would be equally abhorrant and probably next to impossible.

    In this instance, the Judge in question, who is supposed to represent objective law has only himself to blame, if people are willing to meet him, on the terms that he laid out.

    You see this as a problem, and a philosophical connundrum. I see it as justice because of the application of the philosophy behind it.

    Remember, this Judge himself is the one who made the decision to destroy the respect for property rights of 300 million Americans. He is one of the people responsible for setting the “wheels” of this machine in motion… and I for one am just going to laugh my ass off at him, if he gets crushed under it.

    Just like the riders on the Taggart Train were complicit in some way with the ideas that ultimately resulted in their death. This “judge” himself participated in the destruction of the respect for his own rights, and also millions of others. He is complicit. He colluded. He directly interferred with the lives, liberty and freedom of 300 million+ Americans.

    As you well understand, the Constitution of the United States, according to the statists is supposed to be the basis upon which all laws in America exist to uphold. We all know that’s just a sophisticated form of voodoo.

    All the “Liberty Hotel” people are doing is proving that there is not much to fear from “Anarchy”. Their actions prove that there are no “constitutional” protections anymore and as such Anarchy is the rule of law now.

    Haven’t you figured that out yet?
    Think about what Basiat is saying… when he employs the word “Fiction” in descriping the State. It’s a myth. It’s a fairy-tale.

    In this instance…I have to applaud the Liberty Hotel people for demonstrating to those who would weild the government against individuals and deny them property rights, that the knife cuts both ways. The Liberty Hotel people are doing is ripping off the mask, the pretense of the “respectability” of government.

    Now.. if they set up their Liberty Hotel, and incorporate it in a tax-free zone… and refuse to charge taxes while engaging in the business… So Much The Better for them!

    Oh, and by the way… they are probably going to make a tidy profit doing so. Which I am sure they will then pump into some other business projects and libertarian efforts.

    Maybe you don’t understand what they are doing, or why. But I do. I’m even going to send them money to help. I’d like to be an investor.

    This is the Ruination. It’s happening now.

    Are you still paying Taxes Lynette? Are you still feeding the Organs that pay Judge Sutter’s salary? Are you still feeding the machine that you complain is going to be weilded against the poor Judge?

    Hmmmm?

  5. PS…

    Just was browsing thru the usenet, and came across the on-going lawsuit against Hsieh, by FrontSight.

    Maybe I am remembering this wrong… but wasn’t there a big *yawn* from No Treasonites, over Frontsight weilding the power of the state against Hsieh to shut her up?

    According to the Hsieh’s last update, Jan 05, the lawsuit is still on-going. I recall the topsy-turvy world gone-upside down feeling I had when I read JTK defending Ignatius Piazza.

    So wot wot? Weilding the state is ok if it’s a scientologist doing it?

    Anybody care to comment?

  6. Oh Wait… there’s more.

    Here were some other words of wisdom from JTK…

    “Why? At this point we don’t know, but the characterization of this as an attack on free speech by Scientology is getting a lot of play. In reading Hsieh’s site it seems clear that Hsieh is more than a bit of a crusader against Scientology and that she’s been harassing Front Sight founder Ignatius Piazza about possible personal ties to Scientology. Quite apparently she wants him to publicly repudiate Scientology, and she tosses around thinly veiled threats of turning his customers against him.”

    Guess what John. That’s the market place at work. If people don’t want to give business and money to Scientologists… that’s their perogative. It’s called “freedom of association” which implys freedom FROM association with people who individuals don’t like, and whose chosen values do not coincide with one’s own.

    “Piazza says he’s a Catholic. He says there is no connection between Scientology and Front Sight. Even Hsieh agrees on that point. I think people would be looking at this a lot differently if Hsieh were badgering Piazza to publicly repudiate Catholicism because of crimes real and imagined that the church has participated in.”

    There is a market for anti-catholic products, just as there is a market for anti-scientologist products. If people wish to associate themselves with a religion, or belief subset that others find repugnant… then that’s their choice.

    “Can a decent person be a Catholic in good faith without sanctioning everything his church has ever done? I think so.”

    You don’t get to make up other people’s minds about where they spend their money John. It’s none of your business. I for one am glad that Hsieh went very public with this Scientologists lawsuit. I personally went out of my way to talk to every libertarian that I know to warn them about what she was talking about.

    “I don’t see why a Scientologist can’t do the same.”

    That’s why you are free to still patronize your scientologist buddy Piazza, and other people are free to not patronize his establishment. Isn’t the freemarket a wonderful thing John?

    ” And we don’t even know that Piazza is currently a Scientologist, though it seems clear he has been connected. Hsieh started down this road by following up on inflammatory reports about Front Sight, reports which she now concludes were “libelous in their wild speculations and claims”. I see no good evidence that Piazza or Front Sight have done anything wrong at all, for all I know the suit may be an attempt to get her remove some of that libelous material from her site; she quotes the libelous material. Front Sight’s right to such relief may be highly arguable,”

    By who John? By You? Relief by what means? *BLANK OUT*

    ” but I wouldn’t be terribly alarmed that they would argue for it if the law permits. But this is more speculation; we don’t know what the suit is about.”

    Well.. now we do. The petition is available on-line.

    “I’ll tell you this though, I don’t see anything particularly noble or attractive in Hsieh’s harassment of Piazza and Front Sight.”

    That’s because you are still operating under a statist mindset… and have no problem with government being weilded… so long as it’s done in accoradance with *your* beliefs about what’s proper.

    Bah.

  7. MWW:

    Far better just to hang back in safety and snipe from the sidelines.

    Far better for me, because…

    …while other people do the heavy lifting.

    … Nobody’s going to be producing much freedom for *me* via Lost Liberty Hotel.

    Odd really… because I’ve seen many on here continue to cheerlead for Dubya’s “War on Terror”.

    Oddly enough, I’m going to ask you for the last incidence of such cheerleading, here. When was the last time a member of NT praised The War Against Terror, Meaghan?

    If there is a government, then the weilding of it’s force to defend against people who do wrong, who attack individual rights, who threaten others is entirely appropriate, and ONLY then.

    Such a government exists only in the minds of libertarian movement types and voting conservatives.

  8. Rupee:

    I’m curious as to who cheers on the “War on Terror” here. I’ve never seen any evidence of this.

    A couple of former members of NT did in fact cheerlead the state’s terror war.

  9. Work on a personal freedom strategy, not a collective one. Martyring yourself in order to make a point to the masses is a waste of life, just as expending the slightest energy in street theatre to sway the herd is a wasted effort.

    Indeed.

    I can’t think of a single non-profit collective that’s
    worth the powder to blow it up.

  10. Lopez…cheerleading the War on Terror
    Oh… I’m sorry… did it stop? I must have missed it when I stopped reading in disgust. Has it been a year since the armchair lap-top bombadiers have vacated?

    As for whether the Lost Liberty Hotel is pursuing a proper aim… I’ll take criticism on that from any “non-movementarians” who have quit paying taxes, and/or come up to Somena, or been down to Costa Rica, or visited any number of the places where a few individuals together have been “making their personal liberty plans” work.

    For extra fun… go visit Link
    I wont tell you anymore than that.

    Maybe if any of your ever manage to slink on up to Somena someday.. I will be happy to fill you in.

    Check out the following as well

    Link

    [Edit: Please code your links or use tinyurl.com. JL]

  11. Lopez…cheerleading the War on Terror
    Oh… I’m sorry… did it stop? I must have missed it when I stopped reading in disgust.

    Oh, I see: you don’t even know.

    As for whether the Lost Liberty Hotel is pursuing a proper aim… I’ll take criticism on that from any “non-movementarians” who have quit paying taxes, and/or come up to Somena, or been down to Costa Rica, or visited any number of the places where a few individuals together have been “making their personal liberty plans” work.

    What does “visiting” Vancouver Island or anywhere else prove, exactly? That one knows how to use the B.C. ferries? Is that really such a high bar to get over?

    For extra fun… go visit Link
    I wont tell you anymore than that.

    What on earth does the arrest of “aboriginal activists” in Vancouver have to do with libertarian foolishness in NH? Oh, that’s right: you aren’t going to tell me, because the answer is “nothing at all”.

    So let’s ignore, for now, native unrest in Canada and Scientology lawsuits and focus on the matter at hand. To wit: nothing good is going to come of the Lost Liberty Hotel. It’ll either be a flop, like virtually all libertarian-themed projects are, in which case I get to tell the movementarians “Told Ya So”. On the space-alien-rescue probability that this hotel takes Souter’s property, then I get to ask uncomfortable questions about how it feels to use the state as a club. Third case is it takes the property but fails as a business – a combination of the above two.

    In either case, it’s producing a *negative* amount of freedom for me. So why not jeer at the thing?

  12. “Oh, I see: you don’t even know.”

    Nope. I don’t.
    I also don’t know what’s been happening lately in Usenet.
    But a casual look now and again convinces me that it’s still chock-a-block full of creeps.

    I stopped reading No Treason daily around the time of the Front Sight Scientology flap. After that it was War-Hawks going on that kept me away…

    Too busy doing things in the real world to make freedom more likely for me and mine, to spend in a circle-jerk tea&crumpets debate society in blogoland.

  13. “What does “visiting” Vancouver Island or anywhere else prove, exactly? That one knows how to use the B.C. ferries? Is that really such a high bar to get over?”

    I said to visit any number of places where it’s happening, John.

    I don’t spend my time looking for converts. Neither do the people who are involved in “movemmentarianism”, as it’s disparagingly called here. I do know however many of the individuals around the world who are making good strides towards fighting the state, as well as developing free-zones… I got to meet them, because I got off of the internet and got busy.

    A number of pretty active “movementarians” have taken a little time to come and explore the situation in Somena, or Costa Rica… they have looked into it, because they are serious about these things.

    For anybody who has been paying attention to what’s been happening in Canada with my efforts, or that of Marc Emery, you will understand why the 2 stories I linked to are signifigant. I’m not going to spell it out for you.

    Just 2 and 1/2 years ago, about 150+ members of my family shut the whole bloody band government down, over their attempts to impose an illegal tax on us, and the non-natives in this region. For those people, the wanton illegality of this tax was what drove them to declare themselves independent of “Cowichan Tribes” and stop the Hul’qumi’num Treaty Group from pretending to “negotiate” on their behalf.

    We even got the Chief of Cowichan to say, because he was so threatened by the efforts of our “movement”… “Fine.. if they want out… we have no intention of stopping them”.

    Have you read the Royal Proclamation of 1763 Lopez? Do you understand the unique position that Soverign Indigenous People in the BC Region are in, having not ever signed treaties, never ceded their rights, never had their title extinguished? Are you familiar with the Delgamuukwe ruling?
    Do you know about the Vienna Convention?

    You are right John… just hopping on a ferry wouldn’t prove much. But various people within the “movementarian” part of the libertarian world have done their homework on the above issues.

    Because of that… they understand immediatley why my relation David Dennis’ arrest was an interesting event. It’s interesting in that the overall outcome is that the Indigenous Peoples involved have the support of the BQ, and the NDP, and the RCMP are getting their knuckles rapped for racial profiling.

    No Waco… No firebombs and murdering…In fact… this whole event has sparked the Opposition parties, like the NDP and the BQ to immediatley call for an inquiry into the decision making process that INSET is using on where it is devoting it’s time, money and resources…

    Oh… and a number of members of parliament are writing demanding that the legally registered guns be returned to the owners… David Dennis, and company.

    Do you know why it is that the gun-registry program in Canada became so impossible for the Government to use? Because for the most part Aboriginal people simply refused to comply with it. It couldnt be enforced.

    And now the government has even more egg on it’s face because they have been caught harrasing Indians, who have complied with it… which means an even greater incentive for Indigenous Peoples to refuse to participate. The beauty of it is of course… thanks to the Treaties, enforcing compliance is going to continue to be next to impossible.

    Do you know that across Canada right now, there are no less than 6 Indian Act Band Offices who have protestors camped outside of them, making life miserable for the poverty-pimping Indian Agents in protest to the corruption?

    And then… look at the issue of privatized medicine in Canada. Do you know the real reason that the Government of Canada is having to allow it to happen? Because they can’t stop Indian Bands from setting up private clinics and hospitals on their reserve, to let people “jump to the front of the line”…

    Do you know that no less than 5 Indian Nations in Canada have declared themselves to be tax-free zones?

    Are you aware that within every Political Party in Canada there are people who are adamantly proposing that Indians be allowed the economic freedom to set up these “free-zones”?

    Do you know that even the current Prime Minister of Canada has explored the idea with his people, and determined that so long as these free-zones pose no threat to public safety… then indians not charging taxes, especially in those Indian Lands that have not been signed treaties… is a matter for civil litigation… and perhaps should be addressed by Treaties?

    No.. I don’t think you know about these things.
    If you did… or you had studied Marc Emery’s model and his 20+ years of pushing back the state on every concievable issue from Unions and Waste-Disposals, Shopping on Sundays, and even Marijuana Prohibition…. you would know that when people say Libertarian projects are stupid, and the people involved are “losers” is not just insulting, but highly innacurate.

  14. Meaghan:

    Nope. I don’t.

    So you’re just speaking out of indignant ignorance. That’s real good.

    I said to visit any number of places where it’s happening, John.

    What would my visiting any or all of those places mean in regards to my analysis of the Lost Liberty hotel?

    Have you read the Royal Proclamation of 1763 Lopez?

    No. What does it have to do with regards to the Lost Liberty hotel?

    Do you know that no less than 5 Indian Nations in Canada have declared themselves to be tax-free zones?

    No. What does that have to do with regards to the Lost Liberty hotel?

    No.. I don’t think you know about these things.

    Let’s assume I don’t. What relevance do they have to the Lost Liberty hotel?

    …you would know that when people say Libertarian projects are stupid, and the people involved are “losers” is not just insulting, but highly innacurate.

    Who, specifically now, is that quote from?

  15. “The only thing that the Lost Liberty hotel is doing is pointing out the hypocricy and mendacity of the law in question.”

    If we take the project at its word, then that simply is not true, Meaghan. No matter what: at the bottom line, we’re talking about someone taking something that does not belong to them. This is a basic violation of reality. Now, look past the surface, and realize that nothing good can come of that.

    Everybody endorsing this thing has in mind that the end justifies the means.

    It doesn’t.

  16. Hey… Here’s an idea… I’ll call them up and ask them if they get the ruling in their favor what they are doing to do about it?

    Talk is cheap ya know.

    Are they serious about carpet-bagging this rotten creep?
    If they are… well. No dice from me. I’ll find other more worthy people to send money to.

    But I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I think it’s just going to be one more example of *laws* in America applying to some people, and not to others.

    Maybe in Somena could set up a “Lost Liberty Hotel” in memorial to their efforts on this project.

    I dunno.

    Here’s the rub.
    About 2 years ago.. in addition to the other protests, one of the things that my family did was rent a big old back-hoe, and we dug a ditch on our property.

    We have been trying for literally 80 years to get the shitbags in the Band Government to acknowledge the family’s ownership. It’s a multi-generational effort….

    I’ve got band-council minutes going back to the 1950’s when my great-grandfather was trying.

    The ruling family in the Band government their land is right beside ours. They parked a house right on the line, and then proceeded to build a road right thru our property.

    We had been polite about that road for about 10 years.

    The elders decided enough was enough. After the elders declared independence from Cowichan… we got that Backhoe and we dug up the “driveway”. A HUGE 15 foot trench, about 8 feet deep.

    The Chief’s sister was standing on the other side of this ditch.. ON our property screaming at us “You can’t do this… this is anarchy!!!!!”

    I just looked at her and said “sweetheart you have no idea”.

    Anyways… the RCMP in that instance just directed traffic for our blockade… so as to not inconvenience the non-natives who were hoping to pass along Indian Road right beside our demonstration.

    The Chief started screaming at them to make us stop.
    The RCMP said “We don’t have the jurisdiction to do anything here.. so long as public safety is not an issue.. This isn’t our problem”

    My immediate thought when I saw this “Liberty Hotel” thing was along the lines of that experience.

    The Band Office tried to sue us for damaging the road on our property… and the case was thrown out – when our lawyer showed the Judge the extreme lengths and patience our family had gone thru to get this resolved.

    With Somena’s declaration of Independence from Cowichan, the Provincial Court judge didn’t want to touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.

    I suspect that as this ruling’s effects are felt, there are going to be all sorts of actions like what we went thru in Somena… and our little ditch… which we took to defend our property rights.

    It would be very pleasing to me… to see this judge… standing in front of a ditch… screaming “This is Anarchy” if the Liberty Hotel people get this legal action to go the way they say.

    I’m telling you right now…Back in Cowichan even knowing that the property was ours… knowing that we had every right to do with it what we wanted…Knowing the RCMP weren’t going to do squat… it was still a pretty mind-blowingly adrenaline pumping experience to take direct action to stop the on-going theft of our lands.

    I doubt that the Liberty Hotel people are going to have the stomach for this…when it comes right down to it.

  17. Well, I think what Lopez is driving at Meaghan is that your efforts seem to be for the purpose of protecting your property, whereas the people spearheading the hotel effort do not, as far as I know, own Justice Souter’s house. So Lopez disagrees with you that these are really the same kind of project.

  18. Lopez

    I saw enough of No Treason several years back where Lynette and others tried to mock anybody who was doing anything to promote Libertian ideas. I saw enough when JTK was promoting the idea that Diane Hsieh was somehow doing something wrong by alerting people to the Scientology connection with FrontSight. (Especially ironic considering how that’s all played out, and in the context of this little thread).

    I only bother to read these days if I see a comment from Billy or Mike Schnieder and lately you.

    The premise promoted by JTK and Lynette that any effort by libertarians to fight what’s happening, educate and raise awareness is a joke, or is doomed to failure, or is a waste of time, sickens me.

    McPhillips was right when he mocked the “Wild Shall Wild Remain” efforts of No Treason.

    No Treason is essentially a slightly improved version of the tea and crumpets debate society of humanities.philosophy.objectivism.

    It is slightly better than the appalling crap coming out of the “Neo Libertarian Network”.

    Go read Lynettes little essay about “Team Players”.
    I take her and assorted No Treasonites at their word on that.
    They don’t want to play. I wish them good luck. But that’s the extent of it.

    If that’s all they were doing…. ie not being interested in being part of any effort of people trying to preserve Libertarian ideals being respected in the real world, this wouldn’t be an issue. But they don’t stop there. It seems they almost take delight in lofty and innacurate pronouncements about the activism of others.

    They are flat out wrong about this. But that doesn’t stop them. In a sense, they are actually spreading a kind of disinformation campaign… I don’t know if it’s conscious or deliberate… but it has the same effect and so I really don’t care what motivates this behavior on their part.

    When the Endarkenment really kicks into full swing… let me just say this: There are doors that are going to be open for various people to escape. And there are doors that are going to be closed to various others.

    I pay enough attention to Libertarian blogs and e-discussions to figure out who I want to tap on the shoulder and welcome into Somena. I also pass on my observations when asked if I have heard of somebody, or am familiar with them.

    I weed out nay-sayers, negative do-nothings who are still paying taxes, and libertarian circle-jerkers. Me and my relatives aren’t willing to put our lives on the line… and take the actions that we have demonstrated several times that we are prepared to take, and have taken.. to risk going to jail for people who think our efforts are a joke.

    But ya know. Who really cares? Me and my family are losers…
    and David Dennis and his family and friends are losers… and we are all doomed to failure… and we aren’t going to get anywhere with our efforts, and it’s all just a pointless waste of time to even try…after all… you can’t stop government from carrying on with it’s dastardly evil stupid efforts.

    Isn’t that right Lynette?

    I am related to thousands of people who know better and we are not prepared to just give up, and let our lands continue to be stolen, and let the Indian Agents keep playing their wicked little games, while our children suffer, our kids commit suicide, fall into addictions and despair and hopelessness flourishes like an epidemic.

    The difference between my relatives throughout Coast Salish Territory, and in NuuChaNulth Territory, And in KingCome Territory, And in Mohawk Territory, And in Kitselas Territory, And in Sliammon Territory and the No Treason anti-movement types is that we aren’t taking this on-going assault upon us sitting/blogging down. We aren’t busy blogging about history… we are making it.

    One of the things that Native people in Canada learned a long time ago is that attacking those who dare to risk being lightening rods for the state to focus on doesn’t help anybody. And that’s exactly what I see the No Treason “philosophy” about “movementarianism” as doing.

    It’s too bad that non-indians haven’t figured this out… but perhaps their experience with the State experiment hasn’t been as wretchedly awful as ours…yet. I am sure that it will be soon.

    When America has been reduced to the kind of squalor and shitty awful mess of Indian Reserves currently have become in Canada, maybe some of you “No Treason” anti-movementarians will grab a clue.

    There are only a dozen or so libertarians in North America that I have met and known, who have integrated what’s happening enough to be able to have a conversation with one of my elders and comprehend the seething hatred that exists within these various communities towards “the State”.

    The ones who have come, and sat down with my elders.. shared a meal…and have stilled their tongues long enough to listen to people like my Grandfather, my late-Uncle Joe Sylvester, Eugene And Abner Thorne, My Great Uncle Norman Joe and late Mary Thorne, have to a man, been amazed at discovering that there are literally thousands of Aboriginal People in Canada who don’t need to debate on the internet to figure out what’s wrong, and what needs to be done to stop these things from continuing.

    But by all means. Stick with the cyber-debaters and nay-sayers if that serves your chosen values.

    I have no interest in hyping our project… because I want people to do their own homework about what we are doing and why. I have no interest in “selling” it. I’m just telling ya… if you want to do your own research, I’ve pointed you in the right direction. You might want to see if you can find some resources about Potlatch, as well as early accounts of non-natives to the Coast Salish area…

    If you ever do want to come visit… either in Florida, where we are currently running our two businesses…or in Washington State where we will be in 2006, or in Cowichan thereafter… you are more than welcome to come visit.

    But that’s all I have to say about this.

  19. I wouldn’t say that it’s negative liberty for any of us if Justice Souter’s house gets confiscated and turned into a hotel. It’s not my house; hell, it’s not even my state. My property is in no more danger because New Hampshire’s charteree took Souter’s ill-gotten gains and gave them to someone else.

    I do think this is the sort of thing that comfirms libertarians as being social retards in the public mind, like the Manhattan LP members who handed out toy guns outside schools. For Christ’s sake, get a blog or start a floating city or something.

  20. Meaghan:

    I saw enough of No Treason several years back where Lynette and others tried to mock anybody who was doing anything to promote Libertian ideas.

    That’s a pretty huge overstatement.

    Go read Lynettes little essay about “Team Players”.
    I take her and assorted No Treasonites at their word on that.

    Go read mine about inter-libertarian cooperation.

    They are flat out wrong about this.

    No, they aren’t.

    Look: I’m not trying to be mean. But you just aren’t getting the point as to what this is about. *If* you have a viable business plan for freedom, *then* you don’t need movement types: you’ll have folks by their self-interest. This Lost Liberty Hotel is utter, total, complete nonsense from beginning to end. They’re depending on movement types. If *you* really have a plan, then *you* aren’t. In fact, if your product/service is useful, us jeerleaders will gladly *pay you* for it, right alongside security moms and petty bureaucrats.

  21. Holmes:

    I wouldn’t say that it’s negative liberty for any of us if Justice Souter’s house gets confiscated and turned into a hotel.

    It’s another precedent. I’ll admit it’s not much of a negative, being the proverbial fart in a windstorm.

  22. And that’s really the idea.

    It wouldn’t be impossible to construct a plan to recover some damages from Souter, but that in fact is not what this is – the idea here is to steal from him to teach him a lesson.

  23. How can you steal from someone who has everything by ill gain? A thief can’t cry foul when he is robbed: he has no just claim to anything he has but his own life.

    In a different light, I don’t think Souter is responsible for damages for this decision. After all, he isn’t the one stealing the property; he’s simply said that the federal courts won’t get involved. The federal courts have no moral obligation to get involved, and others argue that the courts have the legal obligation not to get involved on top of that. The victims should recover damages from the councilmen of New London, or perhaps the future developer who will profit from this theft.

  24. “How can you steal from someone who has everything by ill gain?”

    How can you claim it’s ill gained when you’ve endorsed and exercised the principle by which it occurred?

    I don’t have a problem with you recovering damages from thieves if you can accomplish it, but that’s not what this is about.

    I also don’t know how you can think Souter is not up to his eyeballs in this criminal conspiracy.

  25. he’s simply said that the federal courts won’t get involved.

    It’s analogous to a Mafia terrorizing the countryside and then pronouncing they have “no moral obligation to get involved” when their West side branch decides to start killing.

  26. How can you claim it’s ill gained when you’ve endorsed and exercised the principle by which it occurred?

    I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    don’t have a problem with you recovering damages from thieves if you can accomplish it, but that’s not what this is about.

    It’s true, this is not about recovering damages. But to defend Souter’s claim to his home, one has to argue that Souter acquired the home justly. Since all he has has come by participation in a criminal conspiracy – as you yourself say – how can he have anything but his own life that he can make a just claim on?

  27. It’s analogous to a Mafia terrorizing the countryside and then pronouncing they have “no moral obligation to get involved” when their West side branch decides to start killing.

    This is a strained analogy. The federal courts have little to do with the town council of New London, CT.

  28. how can he have anything but his own life that he can make a just claim on?

    Well like Kennedy pointed out above this isn’t really about justice per se, it’s more about “eye for an eye”. I’ll grant that Souter deserves little sympathy for engaging in hypocrisy (“the moral rules that apply to others don’t apply to me”), but I would stop short at demolitioning his house just to prove a point.

    This is a strained analogy. The federal courts have little to do with the town council of New London, CT.

    I’m not sure I agree with this; after all, why would the litigants be taking this before the big Court in the first place if that were not so? Government is a complex, interrelated system with several levels of control and responsibility, sort of like the US army.

  29. Well like Kennedy pointed out above this isn’t really about justice per se, it’s more about “eye for an eye”.

    Correct, it’s not about justice. But so what? Souter has no just claim to his property because he did not acquire the property justly: he acquired it with stolen funds. One can argue that this Liberty Hotel idea is imprudent (as I do), but I don’t see how anyone can argue this idea is immoral.

    I’m not sure I agree with this; after all, why would the litigants be taking this before the big Court in the first place if that were not so?

    I could make the same argument for anyone who takes a dispute before a court. Are you part of the vast criminal conspiracy if you file a lawsuit against someone who defrauded you? Of course not.

    Moreover, Kelo et al. sued New London’s town council, not the other way around.

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