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	<title>Comments on: Open Challenge to Rockwell, Hoppe, Kinsella, And The LRA</title>
	<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/</link>
	<description>Market Anarchism in the spirit of Lysander Spooner. Or something.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 00:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: The Antithesis of You Clowns</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-53020</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-53020</guid>
					<description>I wonder where you guys would be if &quot;deadly force&quot; had been used on your ancestors when coming to America. The thing that I find particularly laughable is how you veil bigotry and just plain nail-biting fear under a star spangled cloak of civic concern. Further proof that &quot;Libertarians&quot; are just another species of your garden variety right-wing nutcase. 

The idea of you being libertarians and showing concern for other people outside of your Hestonesque compounds is a little strange to me. Libertarians are the pinnacle of selfishness, in my experience. 

Since its your Blog, why not grow the nuts to just say &quot;I just plain don't like them brown folks coming into MY country.&quot;

The &quot;illegal alien&quot; idea is a convienient way for you to express your insecurities and nonsensical fears. It is also a convienient method for you to dehumanize people to support your own crackpot ideas. 

How much is being allotted to you brave American Heroes (TM) to build your Mexican Defense Shield along our once great nation's southern border? 60 BILLION was it? Good plan! Now all you need is another 120 Billion to fill in the 1300 total mile gaps in it. They must call them &quot;minutemen&quot; because it takes about a minute to scribble down such brilliant ideas on a Denny's napkin. 

I got an another idea you guys can lobby for... you should see if you can use your Super Patriot powers to have that icky French Statue torn down in New York Harbor. You know the one? It's the one with the torch...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder where you guys would be if &#8220;deadly force&#8221; had been used on your ancestors when coming to America. The thing that I find particularly laughable is how you veil bigotry and just plain nail-biting fear under a star spangled cloak of civic concern. Further proof that &#8220;Libertarians&#8221; are just another species of your garden variety right-wing nutcase. </p>
<p>The idea of you being libertarians and showing concern for other people outside of your Hestonesque compounds is a little strange to me. Libertarians are the pinnacle of selfishness, in my experience. </p>
<p>Since its your Blog, why not grow the nuts to just say &#8220;I just plain don&#8217;t like them brown folks coming into MY country.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;illegal alien&#8221; idea is a convienient way for you to express your insecurities and nonsensical fears. It is also a convienient method for you to dehumanize people to support your own crackpot ideas. </p>
<p>How much is being allotted to you brave American Heroes &#8482; to build your Mexican Defense Shield along our once great nation&#8217;s southern border? 60 BILLION was it? Good plan! Now all you need is another 120 Billion to fill in the 1300 total mile gaps in it. They must call them &#8220;minutemen&#8221; because it takes about a minute to scribble down such brilliant ideas on a Denny&#8217;s napkin. </p>
<p>I got an another idea you guys can lobby for&#8230; you should see if you can use your Super Patriot powers to have that icky French Statue torn down in New York Harbor. You know the one? It&#8217;s the one with the torch&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: charley hardman</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4740</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4740</guid>
					<description>wake me up when it matters what anybody thinks about immigration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wake me up when it matters what anybody thinks about immigration.
</p>
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		<title>by: John Lopez</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4742</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4742</guid>
					<description>&quot;into &lt;i&gt;staying&lt;/i&gt; on the...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;into <i>staying</i> on the&#8230;&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: John Lopez</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4744</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4744</guid>
					<description>Then let me be the first to flick on the lights, Hardman: it matters very much what someone who presumes to be a libertarian type thinks about immigration, if what they think is that immigrants ought to be coerced into on the other side of a line on a map.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then let me be the first to flick on the lights, Hardman: it matters very much what someone who presumes to be a libertarian type thinks about immigration, if what they think is that immigrants ought to be coerced into on the other side of a line on a map.
</p>
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		<title>by: John T. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4746</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4746</guid>
					<description>The post specified a peaceful immigrant: &lt;i&gt;He wants to mow my lawn.&lt;/i&gt;

Relax a minute. Take deep breaths and count to ten.

Do you still want to shoot him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post specified a peaceful immigrant: <i>He wants to mow my lawn.</i></p>
<p>Relax a minute. Take deep breaths and count to ten.</p>
<p>Do you still want to shoot him?
</p>
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		<title>by: jsbolton</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4751</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4751</guid>
					<description>I would be willing to personally plant my share of landmines on the border. I would be willing to put on a suit, and bury my share of anthrax on the border, if that is what was asked of all those who supported the defense of the borders. Aggression on a security zone of this significance; it marks the line between war and peace, has to be responded to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be willing to personally plant my share of landmines on the border. I would be willing to put on a suit, and bury my share of anthrax on the border, if that is what was asked of all those who supported the defense of the borders. Aggression on a security zone of this significance; it marks the line between war and peace, has to be responded to.
</p>
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		<title>by: John T. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4752</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4752</guid>
					<description>Would you shoot the guy who wants to mow my lawn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you shoot the guy who wants to mow my lawn?
</p>
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		<title>by: jsbolton</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4753</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4753</guid>
					<description>If he is in an obvious hostile mode, then yes. If every citizen who supported restriction of immigration had to kill one invader who had taken up arms against the country, or be part of a firing squad of several hundred, then yes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If he is in an obvious hostile mode, then yes. If every citizen who supported restriction of immigration had to kill one invader who had taken up arms against the country, or be part of a firing squad of several hundred, then yes.
</p>
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		<title>by: mock</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4764</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4764</guid>
					<description>Hoppe appears to regard immigration as some sort of synergistic theft of quasi-private goods, so his reasoning goes beyond the simple act of lawn mowing.  Of course, I think he's confused about who the actual thief is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoppe appears to regard immigration as some sort of synergistic theft of quasi-private goods, so his reasoning goes beyond the simple act of lawn mowing.  Of course, I think he&#8217;s confused about who the actual thief is.
</p>
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		<title>by: Villager</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4769</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4769</guid>
					<description>Wouldn't it be more effective to help ease the conditions that motivate people to emigrate to the U.S. to begin with? It seems to me that helping to create prosperity and opportunity around the world would go a long way toward easing immigration pressures in the U.S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it be more effective to help ease the conditions that motivate people to emigrate to the U.S. to begin with? It seems to me that helping to create prosperity and opportunity around the world would go a long way toward easing immigration pressures in the U.S.
</p>
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		<title>by: Villager</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4770</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4770</guid>
					<description>P.S.  Can nut-job posts from no-treason.com be featured on no-treason.com's list of nut-job posts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Can nut-job posts from no-treason.com be featured on no-treason.com&#8217;s list of nut-job posts?
</p>
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		<title>by: John T. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4775</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4775</guid>
					<description>Which list?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which list?
</p>
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		<title>by: John T. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4788</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4788</guid>
					<description>Congratulations bolton, you earned us a link at the illustrious &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&amp;address=105x1745102&quot; title=&quot;democatic underground&quot;&gt;democatic underground&lt;/a&gt;.


Hey undergrounders!  We sometimes read your site too. It's been commented on in:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=125_0_1_0_C&quot; title=&quot;Democratic Underground Liberals Set Up As Misers And Local Pariahs&quot;&gt;Democratic Underground Liberals Set Up As Misers And Local Pariahs&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=P876_0_1_0_C&quot; title=&quot;&quot;Traitors to the people. I like that.&quot;&quot;&gt;&quot;Traitors to the people. I like that.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

and

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=P260_0_1_0_C&quot; title=&quot;&quot;Liberals Own Guns, Too&quot;&quot;&gt;&quot;Liberals Own Guns, Too&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations bolton, you earned us a link at the illustrious <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&#038;address=105x1745102" title="democatic underground">democatic underground</a>.</p>
<p>Hey undergrounders!  We sometimes read your site too. It&#8217;s been commented on in:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=125_0_1_0_C" title="Democratic Underground Liberals Set Up As Misers And Local Pariahs">Democratic Underground Liberals Set Up As Misers And Local Pariahs</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=P876_0_1_0_C" title=""Traitors to the people. I like that."">&#8220;Traitors to the people. I like that.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://www.no-treason.com/comments.php?id=P260_0_1_0_C" title=""Liberals Own Guns, Too"">&#8220;Liberals Own Guns, Too&#8221;</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Aaron G.</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4816</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4816</guid>
					<description>Normally a fan of Kinsella, but I have to say you Spoonerites have been rather convincing. What is the point of legitimizing citizenship (of a state) when you don't believe in the legitimacy of the state in the first place?

Besides, even if you were &lt;i&gt;okay&lt;/i&gt; with minimal, localized, gov't (minarchism), I still don't think the answer lies in being overly selective with one's immigration policy relative to a poorer neighbor. Rather, a reduction in gov't services, including land, available to the public would be more effective in reducing squatters and freeloaders, leaving only those who come to perform economically beneficial transactions. And in this case, the marginal productivity argument is devastating to a anti-immigrationist, since I don't know any of that camp that wants to mow my lawn or cook my tacos for as little money as I can negotiate to pay Mexicans that I transact with daily. Less state intervention on the border benefits my pocketbook in two ways, since I am no longer financing state aggression, which in turn imposes higher costs on immigrant labor.

Similarly, I find that the argument that allowing more immigration will destroy the 'cultural integrity' of an area to be unconvincing. People with the self-reliance to brave an unfriendly culture for the chance of greater income in a future period are rarely the frivolous types. I remember reading a survey that estimated that the average time for a Hispanic family to become completely culturally integrated in their American surroundings was three generations, with the first and second having generally better work ethic than the third, only when they are Americanized does their work ethic disappear. What I'm trying to get at is that &lt;b&gt;the State is far more destructive to the positive traits of a culture than any immigrant could ever be&lt;/b&gt;. 

Finally, let it be said that 'culture' is a mere concept, not a piece of property to be owned, and one of the more odious arguments for State aggression. I may disapprove of this or that societal trait, and be very vocal about it, and use all my fiduciary resources to attempt to restrict the market options (through competition) available to those I find distasteful. In the end, however, State aggression against the peaceful is illegitimate, no matter what language they speak or what pigment affects their skin, and I would have no part in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Normally a fan of Kinsella, but I have to say you Spoonerites have been rather convincing. What is the point of legitimizing citizenship (of a state) when you don&#8217;t believe in the legitimacy of the state in the first place?</p>
<p>Besides, even if you were <i>okay</i> with minimal, localized, gov&#8217;t (minarchism), I still don&#8217;t think the answer lies in being overly selective with one&#8217;s immigration policy relative to a poorer neighbor. Rather, a reduction in gov&#8217;t services, including land, available to the public would be more effective in reducing squatters and freeloaders, leaving only those who come to perform economically beneficial transactions. And in this case, the marginal productivity argument is devastating to a anti-immigrationist, since I don&#8217;t know any of that camp that wants to mow my lawn or cook my tacos for as little money as I can negotiate to pay Mexicans that I transact with daily. Less state intervention on the border benefits my pocketbook in two ways, since I am no longer financing state aggression, which in turn imposes higher costs on immigrant labor.</p>
<p>Similarly, I find that the argument that allowing more immigration will destroy the &#8216;cultural integrity&#8217; of an area to be unconvincing. People with the self-reliance to brave an unfriendly culture for the chance of greater income in a future period are rarely the frivolous types. I remember reading a survey that estimated that the average time for a Hispanic family to become completely culturally integrated in their American surroundings was three generations, with the first and second having generally better work ethic than the third, only when they are Americanized does their work ethic disappear. What I&#8217;m trying to get at is that <b>the State is far more destructive to the positive traits of a culture than any immigrant could ever be</b>. </p>
<p>Finally, let it be said that &#8216;culture&#8217; is a mere concept, not a piece of property to be owned, and one of the more odious arguments for State aggression. I may disapprove of this or that societal trait, and be very vocal about it, and use all my fiduciary resources to attempt to restrict the market options (through competition) available to those I find distasteful. In the end, however, State aggression against the peaceful is illegitimate, no matter what language they speak or what pigment affects their skin, and I would have no part in it.
</p>
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		<title>by: Stefan</title>
		<link>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4819</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.no-treason.com/archives/2004/09/27/open-challenge-to-rockwell-hoppe-kinsella-and-the-lra/#comment-4819</guid>
					<description>I didn't know these were some of the ways the folks at democratic underground regarded this site...

&lt;i&gt;run, don't walk from that site. there is nothing good to find there.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Seem to be a fair amount of Ayn Rand 'bots there. What I love about them is their humanity and their realism. LOL! &lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Geez. I wish these......people would tell us whether they are Libertarians or Conservatives. It's just so damn hard to tell the difference anymore.&lt;/i&gt;

Not bad for creepy creeps who only support not paying taxes when it's the other party holding office...



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know these were some of the ways the folks at democratic underground regarded this site&#8230;</p>
<p><i>run, don&#8217;t walk from that site. there is nothing good to find there.</i></p>
<p><i>Seem to be a fair amount of Ayn Rand &#8216;bots there. What I love about them is their humanity and their realism. LOL! </i></p>
<p><i>Geez. I wish these&#8230;&#8230;people would tell us whether they are Libertarians or Conservatives. It&#8217;s just so damn hard to tell the difference anymore.</i></p>
<p>Not bad for creepy creeps who only support not paying taxes when it&#8217;s the other party holding office&#8230;
</p>
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